There’s an odd forum announcement over on the Inworldz forums :
Over the course of the last couple of months or so, it has become apparent that Linden Labs has been tightening the cash outs, or taking longer, etc., thus forcing people to make accounts over here to attempt to cash their L’s out.
For clarification: InWorldz economy stands on it’s own, we are not tied to Linden Lab, nor any other grid for that matter. When you attempt to cash out against our merchants and residents who are growing this economy, while not being a part of it, we will remove the cashout.
From a business standpoint, we are not about to start absorbing a loss for Linden Lab and their cash outs. This would be very foolhardy on our part to even try to absorb those. If you wish to cash out in our world, then you need to be a part of it, otherwise expect us to put a hold on those monies and not cash them out (as this also sets off my fraud flags when I look over the accounts).
If you are encouraging people to bring their cash outs over here, please stop. This is not helpful to our merchants or residents who do normal business daily in our grid. If you know someone who is encouraging others to do this, please let them know to stop or send them to this thread 🙂
Thanks everyone!
The odd part about this is that I’m not sure how anyone is exchanging money from Second Life to Inworldz or vice versa, as far I was aware this sort of exchange ended long ago. In their TOS update thread, an October 2012 announcement stated :
Unfortunately, at this time, our losses due to Fraud have become too high to sustain and we are effectively shutting down any ATM business. Owners that we are aware of have been notified, and we will no longer allow intergrid currency exchanging.
Furthermore the InworldZ TOS states :
InWorldz, LLC further establishes that any service designed to transfer I’z into or out of it’s service may result in account termination. This includes, but not limited to: ATM machines designed to transfer I’z out of InWorldz into other currency, people or accounts created to transfer I’z out of InWorldz into other currency, or any other system deemed by InWorldz staff to be accommodating such transfers.
So I am somewhat bemused as to how anyone is using Inworldz for cashing out, rather than cashing out via Second Life.
This is also the sort of thing that may have Linden Lab scratching their heads too because trading Linden Dollars on third party exchanges was banned in 2013. In May 2013 Linden Lab did announce ways to buy Linden Dollars from authorised third party exchanges but not to sell them.
I don’t know if someone has found a way to exploit transfer of currencies between the two grids but I’d be very wary of getting involved in anything like this, Inworldz clearly don’t like this and Linden Lab most definitely won’t like this.
There’s another interesting statement in the original Inworldz thread I linked to. Someone asks how long it will be before Inworldz has to add the tax requirements Linden Lab now have for Second Life, the answer is :
Fairly soon actually. I need to really have those in place before 2015 rolls around for the new tax year. Although I’m working out a much easier method so we don’t slow down cash outs for our users, just put in the limit if they are not willing to comply with what we need.
Tax and account requirements look like they will be coming to Inworldz and in the future many more virtual worlds, so we should get used to them.
I don’t get it at all. Since intergrid cash-outs are not possible, how… OK. Forget it. I can’t even.
But here’s another thing that I have to say. When LL, under pressure from US authorities, started demanding tax information and everything from people whose income from cashing-out in-world revenue exceeds $20,000, there were quite a few very vocal people that got their knickers in a bunch and started yelling.
I really DON’T want to see this kind of thing happen in InWorldz’ case. For everyone’s information: LL, InWorldz, AviNation, Kitely, all of them have to play by the rules set forth by the legislation of their country of origin, and they’re not going to risk being targeted by the IRS and other such services just because some people don’t want to be taxed for income generated from in-world sales and services.
20K is one trigger, there are other triggers but yes this is a reality that is going to come to more and more virtual worlds. The tax man is on the case.
Having seen how this played out in Second Life, the other grids have the opportunity to provide more helpful information when they do start having to collect this information.
Yup. The taxman is here, and he’s here to stay.
I can’t wait for the next LL TOS update to include language stipulating anyone who posts negative criticism in SLUniverse forums automatically forfeits all their lindens.
I’m sure Mona would think it’s a good idea. Perhaps she should go into customer services for LL?
Hello,
After reading this for a couple of days since I came across it, and while deciding what, if anything, I would say on the matter, I decided to go ahead and post a short comment.
There are some caveats; One is that a large percentage of people believe whatever they are told or read and do not go to the trouble of finding out more on a subject. Two is that we are dealing with illusions.
Since I was involved in that grid during the time of the original changes there relating to discontinuing ATM withdrawals of the Oct 2012 TOS change, I know that “some” were then, and are still, able to do such. Even their wording implies this is possible, “any service designed to transfer I’z into or out of it’s service –may result– in account termination”.
I was involved with Anna of Inbiz who did [or still does, apparently the current thing there relates to some issues she is having, but I only get offlines from her group anymore and don’t want to bother her via email on this as it does not interest me].
She uses ATMs.
What actually happened is that many people used to transfer IZ back to their SL avatars for their tiers and such, from any monies they made in inwz. They wished to stop this bleedout, and it was A LOT of bleeding then.
So it accomplished stopping that. They could always still bring in their SL money and convert it to Iz, hence the comments by elenia about the business aspects. From a purely business perspective this enhances that grid and further controls the economy.
And as with much else, in time, people go away who know of such things, or find some reasoning that fits in with their own perceptions to make it acceptable.
Since I had been the only employed person for Inbiz [and still may have been], and Anna is a friend of mine, no others could know such behind the scenes issues. And there is much more I will never speak to, mainly because it really does not matter and is no longer something I am involved in preferring the free and hypergated Meta where their is no currencies.
As to the taxman, even though this has nothing to do with me, I think Kitely has the correct perception and business model in dealing with this.
They allow people to sell items on their marketplace, even outside of their own grid, in USD, thus they are not involved in such paperwork at all, it is on the merchant as it has nothing to do with Kitely “cashing out” anything. They act as the middle man to anonymously smooth the transfer of content sales to paypal, and take a small percentage of sales for this service.
In any case, as with most things, there is much more to it all, but I doubt anyone wishes to hear of it and I am only adding this short comment [that is not short enough but I tend to go on and on sometimes…lol]
For myself, mostly to pass time, I use out of world markets to sell my terrains as I do not wish to be limited by some grid’s perceptions of how I should do business.
regards [off to the OSGrid 7th birthday party!!]
Contrary to popular belief, I don’t bite, you should comment here more often, even with your short posts 😉
The wider issue is that Linden Lab won’t be happy with the concept of people funnelling funds to another exchange, it’s a worrisome situation for them and Inworldz.
Worrisome for many, true that-) Thank you for the personal invite to post more of my short comments [and even the long ones, I will go ahead and assume…lol].
I don’t know about the “Contrary to popular belief, I don’t bite” issue…lol
I actually don’t comment in many places now [never really did], mostly due to rl crap…but I use g+ mostly and it keeps me busy enough.
I came back to here this morning as one of my emails concerned this, a group message from Anna;
“Group notice: inBiz Sad About Second Lif [sic]
Unfortunately Linden Labs has asked that inBiz cease its normal operations in Second Life. I am currently appealing the issue, but inBiz assets in Second Life are currently frozen. Although the case is currently open, I do not expect a quick resolution. This may mean that we are unable to process additional transactions in SL. For the next few weeks I will process small transactions from long-time clients. I will try to be online more in the next few days to handle questions.”
Anyone who reads this can join her group in both grids, still, I would imagine.
Apparently the **it has hit the fan, I expect just because they finally noticed due to the new reporting issues going on in SL. I don’t keep up well with things that don’t interest me in my VR play/escapism time though, so I would assume there is much more to all this than meets the eye on casual readings. [the last sentence would be obvious but I have found it is often best, if so inclined, to state such things anyway for those for whom it may not be so obvious]
If any readers get with her personally on the matter [she is very approachable and nice] please tell her I said hello and to email me back!!!
Perhaps she might be inclined to comment here also.
regards
My problem with all this is this.
What I do with my money is my business. If I wish to be able to transfer money from SL to IW or OSG or UMB (up my butt) i should be able to. For LL to shut it down tells me they are afraid of IW and the other grids.
They are worried that people are going to go to the other grids cause well quite frankly, SL is so screwed up and LL keeps fixing what isn’t broke. People should be able to transfer THEIR money to whatever grid they like. We work hard for our money that we make. LL should have no say in the matter.
As for the taxman, he has always been there but he is not after the little fish. He is after the big fish that are not playing right!
Just my two L$, C$, I$ worth.. LOL!