Just when you’re talking about Linden Lab’s lack of response to the TOS issues (still need a name for this folks) Kylie of the United Content Creators Of Second Life (UCCSL … see acronyms, it’s all about acronyms) has received a response.
When Linden Lab need to get all official and make a measured and official response they have a man for the task, a man who possibly wears a suit, sunglasses and carries a briefcase with a combination lock.
One man on a lonely platform
One case sitting by his side
Two eyes staring cold and silent
Shows fear as he turns to hide
Ah, we fade to grey, Peter Gray
Look, there’s always room for some Visage! Anyway more importantly, the reply. I’m not going to copy and paste the email, it’s in the link above, but the email is the most encouraging sign yet that Linden Lab are actually listening to the concerns of content creators. There is also other intriguing information in the email, such as Linden Lab looking to open avenues for people to sell content across platforms for their other products.
The email outlines that part of the purpose of a unified TOS across the Linden Lab product range is to allow content creators to engage in user to user transactions across Linden Lab’s other products. There has been some speculation about this in various forums, but it was merely speculation.
The email also suggests that Linden Lab are reviewing the TOS to see if changes can be made to reassure content creators.
However, on the other side of the coin the email suggests that Linden Lab do not want to go back to the previous wording and again raises the issue of sell and re-sell, which I really do not understand because Linden Lab are acting as agents to enable sales, they do no sell and re-sell, they act as the agent to put the cust0mer in touch with the content creator.
Just to try and explain what I’m getting at here, this is what eBay UK say about their role:
“eBay does not have possession of anything listed or sold through eBay, and is not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. The contract for the sale is directly between buyer and seller.”
eBay make this distinction clear for a reason, if you’re selling or re-selling you cannot take the hands off approach Linden Lab do to transactions, if you’re selling or re-selling you have additional responsibilities to that of someone who is merely an agent to help the buyer find the seller. I’m surprised that Linden Lab want to put themselves in a position whereby they are selling or re-selling.
It’s not just eBay who make this distinction, Travel Republic is a holiday search website, you can find hotels, flights, package holidays from lots of different providers. I’ve used this site, it’s useful, but they point out that they are not selling:
“Travel Republic is a travel search website acting as agent only. Each product (e.g. flight, hotel or car hire) has its own price independent of any other products booked at the same time and creates a separate contract directly between you and the provider of that product. Travel Republic champions value, choice and flexibility and does not sell, organise or arrange package holidays.”
Anyway, the email from Peter Gray is encouraging in so much as it’s a sign that Linden Lab are listening and are looking to see if a compromise can be met, but it’s far from addressing the main concerns of content creators and it’s odd that Linden Lab want to put themselves in a position that sites like eBay and Travel Republic go out of their way to insist they’re not in.
i think what linden are saying by wanting sell re-sell licensing rights is that they don’t want merchant creators to be able to restrict their user buyers usage rights over-and-above whatever CMT rights linden as a cross-platform/game/world provider determines
an example for instance:
linden enter into an agreement/arrangement to provide Desura/SL MP access to another linden-content-compatible (whatever form that compatibility might be) commercial operator within the Desura eco-system. linden would not want to allow their user/creators any say in this kind of arrangement
meaning that a Desura/SL MP merchant creator can’t say in their own T&C: not for use in that [other game(s)]
+
like you mention on the SLU thread. this is about opening up the whole Desura platform to user generated content where people can create buy sell stuff
i think this is a good thing altogether for SL content merchants who make stuff for the consumer market. clothes hair houses toys breedables weapons etc. Desura going to give them more potential customers
where the ToS doesn’t work well is for artists, visual and performance. who create essentially one-off (and/or limited season) experiences. people like Bryn and Crap and them. so i think that it is only in this area where changes/clarifications will come (if any)
The one size fits all TOS doesn’t really work. That’s part of the problem but people also seem to be missing the issue of the TOS being a Linden Lab TOS. The changes may not have been made with Second Life in mind.
Yes I think there is potential to open up a marketplace to users of Linden Lab’s other services and that works both ways, Desura users may sell to Second Life users. This is all speculation of course.
yes true about the speculation
but if didn’t have things to speculate about then will be a bit dismal
like you might have to turn into a fashion or photo or travel blog
q: (:
Your comparison of eBay and SL is inapt. You are correct that eBay does not own what is being sold. They do not ‘get’ the money from a sale. They bill their users for services rendered. They are a ‘connection’ service.
However, in SL we upload our content to the SL system owned by LL. They are then in physical possession of the content, not so with eBay. In the Market they display our promotional material, which is literally more of our content, an image just like the image used to make a system blouse. Read the eBay TOS and look for the rights granted eBay to use those promotional images and the requirements. The Lab literally produces copies of the images to send to people to display on their computers, eBay does the same. When payment is made it is made to LL, not so with eBay. They deliver a copy of the product to the buyer. eBay does not reproduce the items I am selling on eBay. Then LL provides us our cut and eBay bills us.
The two company’s processes are not comparable, except for promotional images.
The comparison was made in terms of differentiating between a seller and a service provider. Linden Lab are a service provider, they state this in their TOS.
If LL were selling content, then the purchase agreement would be between the buyer and Linden Lab. However it’s not, the purchase agreement is between the buyer and the merchant, paying marketplace Linden is merely a means to fulfilling the transaction, LL could develop another means to do that, but that one works well for all parties.
Amazon will store content on behalf of sellers, they will even dispatch it but they aren’t the seller. There are different agreements for sales on Amazon when Amazon sell directly and when a third party is the seller. Interestingly, Second Life products on Amazon are sold by Amazon,
Actually Ebay does take a percentage over sales, but of course cant own the item as the item will never physically transitate inside their “rooms”, while instead everything in SL is stored in LL “rooms” so potentially free to be owned by the home owner… sorry for my english 🙂
Well said.
I thought Peter Gray left the lab ages ago.
So did I for some reason, I could have sworn I’d read that he left.