Paisley Beebe is the host of the highly successful “Tonight Live with Paisley Beebe” hosted by SLCN.TV, in a role reversal I arranged an email interview with Paisley so we could hear her views on Second Life and associated concepts. Paisley offered up some insightful views and put me right on a few issues, we discussed not only Paisley’s show but issues about Second Life as a whole including lag, merging grids, performance fees as well as touching upon dyslexia, a RL recognition of Paisley Beebe at a museum in Melbourne, Australia and much more, we’ll start with Paisley giving us a little background on Tonight Live and SLCN:
Paisley Beebe: “In Australia I am now just another Jazz Singer without work, (economics and lack of venues) 18 years ago there was a resurgence in Jazz in Australia, and I had lots and regular work as much as I wanted really, but due to Govt regulations and economics the venues all closed down, and all even the best of us have lost our livelihood here. As a Singer really I’m not exceptional, I’m professional, good at what I do, very entertaining but not so exceptional that people are knocking down doors to get to me, (mind you there is almost no one in jazz in Australia getting that treatment!) I’m also a trained Actress that never got off the blocks, and a host on a small community radio station, but for a number of personal reasons my dreams and ambitions never came to fruition, in music or in Acting. I have no illusions that I have had a lot of false starts! and like a lot of women, family intervened and not in a usual way, (very complicated family life…don’t ask). But now that I do have time to have a career (kids at school, family life less complicated..) I can!!, without being told I’m too old, not right for the part, don’t have the right connections, or asked to give up time with my family for travel, or work hours. I do have a demanding family life and many of us do because of various things, and so working from home in SL fits in very nicely.
In real life there is no way I could create and develop a TV show! at this time of life, I’m too old to start, (47) and there are so many better qualified experienced and talented people than I. Being the first at something is always a huge advantage. I was damn lucky to have met SLCN.TV’s Wiz Nordberg, Texas Timtam, and Starr Sonic when I did, and have the good fortune that they took a risk on such a new and untried format. (I think Texas said she was horrified actually at the format…) My story is the story of so many of SL’s careerists, its what makes this platform sooo exiting. I’m so pleased and thrilled to be a part of it. I now own a Production Company called Perfect World Productions www.perfectworldproductions.com which produces Tonight Live and Fabulous Fashion both TV shows owned and created by me and my team of 6 staff, including Superdave Spearman on Security, Taralyn Gravois Studio Manager, AutumnFoxx Sutherland Director, Delinda Dyrssen Producer and Angie Mornington Host of Fabulous Fashion. We have more shows in the works so hold tight there is More To Come.
We have just shot our 81st show! the show started in May 2007. The format has stayed the same. 3 guests per show. The format is based on a tried and true format for talk shows, a Musical guest and 2 non musical guests. My aim was to highlight the positive and creative ways people use Second Life and virtual worlds. (no more gambling sex and BDSM stories pleeeeese!)”
All the shows are still available on SLCN.TV all 81 of them…82 this weekend.. and stay tuned there are some very exiting advancements coming up for SLCN.TV in the next few months.Fabulous Fashion with Angie Mornington is becoming a very popular show. The fashion industry in SL is the most, hands down successful industry in SL so it was a no brainer to do a show on that. I have 2 other shows in the “works” but finances are restricting me getting started on them. We run financially on advertising only, no venture capitalizing govt grant or silent partner financing it (I work harder that way….sigh..)….I am the Co-owner of both productions along with SLCN.TV and the original creator and producer of both. We have some advancements in advertising coming to make it more financially viable. “its been a labour of love…and a credit card nightmare..” Tonight Live has over 18 thousand viewers per month on average, and growing. Those stats come from inworld stream activation on inworld televisions, website streaming activation and downloads from iTunes. Those numbers are all provable and quantifiable. Tonight Live is one of SLCN.TV’s highest rated shows.”
Ciaran Laval: “Who picks your guests for tonight live?”
Paisley Beebe: “I do, My producer Delinda Dyrssen and I keep a look out for interesting happenings and stories, I read and skim through about 200 RSS blog posts a day…and rely on tips and press releases as well.”
Ciaran Laval: “Do you have a favourite moment from your show?”
Paisley Beebe: “Not one favorite there are many. some are very moving some are hilarious some just damn fascinating. Some do include nude griefers and songs written just for Tonight Live, (we have strict security now so don’t try it!!!…the nude bit I mean…)”
Ciaran Laval: “When voice was first introduced it was somewhat controversial, you use voice to great effect and your show would not work without it, do you think the introduction of voice has been a success?”
Paisley Beebe: “Well not strictly true, we use Skype to record, and only use voice to get the lips moving. Its a complicated set up and Skype sometimes has a really bad line, and that with sometimes shoddy mics and technically bewildered guests, can really make being heard and understood very tricky. We tend to be over cautious with our sound set up, and do a lot of testing of each guest before the show to try and find out if there will be any problems with sound well before the show and fix them if possible. I like voice because I don’t like typing all the time and its great for our meetings otherwise happy with typing if just in passing. I’m Dyslexic so typing can be a bit embarrassing for me. Spell check for type chat anyone? what a great idea!!!! Listen up Linden Lab!”
Ciaran Laval: “Tonight Live goes out at Sunday 6pm SLT, quite possibly the peak hour of usage of Second Life all week, have you experienced any problems?”
Paisley Beebe: “Loads….Sim crashing, Voice Crashes, Guests and host crashes, things don’t rez, Cant bring up notecards, Lag can be absolutely appalling, so we have structured the show around everything being as bad as possible, so we don’t have to cancel, and despite some very long delays we haven’t yet had too. The audience numbers between 45 avatars on the sim at the low side to 78 tops at the show. But I wanted peak time…. so be it :)”
Ciaran Laval: “You have some great singers on tonight live, but you yourself are a singer, do you feel Second Life is a good platform for promoting music?”
Paisley Beebe: “It is if you want to extend your reach but not in itself. SL isn’t well known enough yet as a Music platform for it to be viable for a high profile musician. Too small. Better for small time independents who need a bit more exposure. And there is only money in it if you play popular music and lots of it! (8 gigs a week min), and then the money including CD sales is only just enough to “get by” on if your good!. If you want to give up your day job… better go be a dress designer. I think one day it will be more viable though, once the music side of things in SL is better known and people start coming into SL for the music. Then you will have more of a market. Right now its a very small dedicated audience in SL and there are a lot of musicians at the moment all hoping for exposure and more fans. Full sized bands aren’t working in here so much, because splitting the tips or small fee between a 4 or 5 piece band is not viable if you need to make tier in SL with your SL income as a musician, some bands stream in RL gigs which is never as popular as playing a gig just for the SL crowd, as its less interactive. Its a great place for the Solo Artist.
I’ve sold a few Cd’s and mp3’s through SL but as a Jazz Artist with a very small audience in SL, selling mp3’s or CD’s is a hard slog. People in SL really are more interested in buying houses, furniture, clothes and accessories, not music. I think most audience members love to go see the live shows and interact with the musicians in a way they can’t do in RL, but actually buying their music, may not be so much of an interest when you can see that same musician 8 times a week for free or a small tip in SL.
Most musicians in SL at some point also reach a saturation point, where anyone that likes their music has been to the show many times and they just aren’t gaining enough new fans to sustain 8 gigs or more a week, without the crowd sizes dropping off substantially. SL right now is like playing in a small town, If you don’t play pop music, and you fit into a smaller niche like I do, you tend to play to the same dedicated fans all the time who follow you around, its not like touring where you can play a new town and gain new fans in every new venue. Its much harder work in SL to gain new fans. Playing different time zones can help, but a lot of musicians won’t do it for practical reasons ie…sleep, or neighbors who unjustly complain at 4am about the racket……and also, if you play a different time zone, it may be harder to connect with the audience who may not speak your language, and in second Life interaction is King!. Most musicians play during the U.S time zone because U.S citizens are better tippers, and speak english, the Aussies and Euros don’t like tipping, its a cultural thing. I find the U.S audiences personally really exiting! Some cultures are much more layback about their musical appreciation.
I could be playing in Second life more often, but choose not to, as I very rarely cover my costs, and I need too, at this stage, my TV show advertising is not covering my staff costs yet… I don’t play an instrument, and don’t use backing tapes, (personal choice, and boring for me..) and aside from my RL husband, who can only work with me from time to time, I use professional musicians to back me, and I have to pay them RL dollars. The tips and fee doesn’t cover it not even half usually. So I can only play for a reasonable fee, (Tiny compared to RL standards of course) even then I usually end up giving all my fee to the musician, taking nothing for myself. Most Venues in SL now won’t pay more than 5K ($19 dollars U.S, $29 aus) an hour in fees whether its for one musician or 2 or 5! and there are less and less of those now as compared to 2 years ago when I started.. and I only get, at the most, about 2K tips on top of that. Maybe 5K in tips on an extraordinary night! Some musicians claim to get far more in tips than that, but I don’t like to hassle my audience much for money and over 2 years that’s what I usually get. It could be because I’m not worth tipping 🙂 but I suspect its just demographics, and now with the economic downturn…”Depression!!” everyone is cutting back, so its worse I think. Ticketed events can work, I’ve done about 2 or 3, and made a good profit with a full band, but it takes a lot of work to put those together, and I’m not sure with the low numbers of audience members if that model can be sustained particularly in this economic climate.
Ciaran Laval: “How do you feel about the ability to sell music via Second Life as opposed to Myspace?”
Paisley Beebe: “You don’t sell music on MySpace, MySpace is just a networking tool and a way for Musicians to put their music up there to be listened to and gain fans. Links from MySpace to CD baby or iTunes work. CD Baby and iTunes and bricks and Mortar shops work best. Also selling your CD’s at Real Life gigs works well if you are a small time independent as I am. I haven’t had much if any success at selling any of my Albums actually in SL, some SL fans have bought the cd’s or mp3’s through CD baby and iTunes. I have one Album on sale for 500L in SL in both my shop and at the studio, and I’ve sold about 2 of them since November, to friends….shrugs… The Album could be crap? my marketing could be crap? or I could be right and the majority of people in SL want to see you live at a show and want to spend money in SL on clothes and other things. Having said that, there will be a line of musicians out the door who will tell you how they sell heaps of CD’s and mp3s on SL, because they are better than me, have better marketing or are lying cause they don’t want to admit that they aren’t. Personally I sold most of my albums on CD baby and iTunes and am continuing to do so with the biggest amount of fans coming from Japan. I don’t play any Japanese shows in SL perhaps I should? but the opportunity has not arisen. Maybe people don’t want to buy music on SL cause its less portable… I do have one album that you can buy in SL to play in SL and also download the mp3’s but its a new concept from TRAX in SL and maybe people don’t trust it yet. That Album is going for 2,500L which is about 10 dollars U.S pretty much equal to iTunes money, but people do like to buy individual tracks these days so maybe that model isn’t going to work. Might have to put it in the bargain box soon :)”
Ciaran Laval: “Booking Second Life singers seems relatively cheap, for example a RL social club would pay a shed load more for a singer, is that frustrating for a live entertainer or is the added reach via Second Life more important?”
Paisley Beebe: “There are many many musicians on SL that wouldn’t get a decent gig in RL and they are happy to get whatever they can and have someone listen, at the other end of the scale there are some highly accomplished musicians who prefer to work in SL rather than RL, who would get paid reasonably well in RL, perhaps they now have a disability, or live in an area that doesn’t have a music industry, or have other personal reasons why they prefer to work in SL. And then there’s the musician who do both and have developed an affection for SL and its fans. In regards to “Shed Loads” consider, in real life a base legal fee for a musician is based on the amount of people they can attract to a venue, and in reality only very few get a reasonable fee more than a few times a week if they are successful. So while 200 bucks might seem like a great fee for 3 or 4 hours work, you might only get that once or twice a week, most working musicians in RL are still well below the poverty line, and for most bands in RL you get a lot less when you split it 3 or 4 ways its more like 150 bucks a gig…You can’t really compare it. I think most Musicians particularly ones with professional aspirations of any calibre would like to earn in SL at least enough to cover an accompanist or if they are solo, their SL costs, and have money to play with on SL. I like that its an open market, and those that are entertaining on any level can have a go. But I would like to see musicians on SL more appreciated as a service provider and see their talent and time compensated in a more humane and respectful way more often, not all of us are happy to be treated like buskers living on tips, in RL many of us have been there done that, and busking is seen as a huge step backwards. (having said that some people love busking! and good for them!)
People who hire musicians in SL have often never done so in RL, and they set themselves up as a Music promoter and venue owner in SL just because they can! they see a need and love music, and why not! that’s what this platform is all about! but it doesn’t make them a good business person, or even good at getting a crowd at their venue to see the musicians (just like RL!). Venue owners in SL can’t make money on the door as yet, or in drinks or food as in RL, so you have to have another reason to draw a crowd if you want to pay your tier with income from that crowd, which means having a product to sell near the venue or in the venue, (sponsorship is another issue and I’ll talk about that further on). So that once you get the crowd that is drawn in by the musician you can make sales there. Otherwise you go the “tips only” route (meaning you don’t pay the musician a fee, and they get what they can in tips from the crowd and often share those tips with the venue owner), to avoid the cost of paying the musicians, and foot the bill for the rent or Tier and sometimes staff. If you are a venue owner without a product to sell, I can say with out a doubt you will never make enough from venue tips to cover those costs, the general public on SL tip the venues about a 10th of what they tip a musician no matter how hard the musicians work to get the venue tipped… Most people don’t care about venues, they often think they have money from other sources. Venue owners in general are the most underrated and unthanked people in the music business, and one of the most important!
The added reach is initially more important to most musicians when they embark on SL, but once you reach saturation point, and most musicians with a few exceptions do, (which is why they usually work like crazy and then cut right back on gigs…usually..) Of course after a while on SL you want more…you want to be able to play with some Lindens like other people who work in SL.
Unfortunately though,being a musician in SL is not seen by most people as work…most audience members see a musician with all these people around them praising them, and screaming for them, and think wow thats gotta be fun! I’d do that for nothing! but they are unaware of the years of training, the money spent honing your craft, and if you are a professional, the years of bad gigs, bad treatment, playing to a wall with a TV screen on it…and making it seem as if your having the time of your life, and mostly we do have the time of our life!, or you’d quit, but believe me its a job, when you feel like crap, you’ve just had an argument with your husband, and because the grid is slow TP’s are down, Group notices don’t work, you only have 10 people at your gig, none of whom want to tip, believe me to act like its all lots of fun.. and you still sing your lungs out, can be hard work!!!., even when it looks effortless….as a musician your job is to make each of those people in the audience feel good, and to transport them in some way, you do have to work hard to “entertain” them….it takes skill and a tough hide! And… hours and days of work in preparation to get to the point of even being on stage!, (its not all beer and skittles!!!) its not just the hour on actual stage you spend, its also the marketing, the training, the networking, the hiring of a manager or a show host stage, effects, technology, learning new songs, writing new songs….its all preparation, and if time is money…that’s the time the only money you are earning is from royalties or CD sales. Just like in RL. Just because a job is fun doesn’t mean its not worthy of being paid. SL builders get paid, Pole Dancers get paid, Models get paid, Designers get paid, Escorts get paid more then the average SL musician and I bet they didn’t pay much for the poseballs!!! all sorts of entertainers get paid, but for some reason there is a sort of distain in some quarters if musicians want to talk about money, especially in SL! almost a holier than thou attitude??? “I do it for the love of music” what it really comes down to is, this some can afford to play for fun, they have other income and some can’t.. pure and simple, some make their living from music and to give it away day after day just rankles! if you aren’t being compensated eventually with record sales or fees its just not fair!. Its also probably just left over from the early days of SL when it was just soooo incredibly amazing that you could stream into SL for anyone! That you would do it for nothing! With SL attracting more professional and wanna-be professional musicians that will change, I hope its for the better.. I really do! I’m absolutely convinced there is space for all, the “tips only” the karaoke and the professional who wants to be paid.
All this aside, musicians in RL and SL are a luxury unfortunately, and when times are tough and you need to buy bread…..or…ah hem…clothes and hair…the musicians are the last to get paid….attitudes to musicians also probably harks back to the wandering minstrel days where musicians were less than beggars and thieves….we probably haven’t come that far…
As far as Sponsorship go… it will only work once there is a big enough audience to watch the shows. No sponsor is going to spend enough money to cover your costs if their advert is seen by less people than a high school production, its not worth the money. And that’s the numbers we are looking at right now for Live productions, often less… unfortunately.”
Ciaran Laval: “Would you feel as comfortable performing if SL had a merged grid of kids and adults?”
Paisley Beebe: “I don’t want the grid to merge, I like having an “Adult” game or world. I don’t want to deal with teenagers and kids in SL, I have enough of them at home 🙂 there is so little entertainment and recreational spaces for “Adults” I think its just so nice that the median age for SL’s is 30’s and upwards. Most entertainment etc is geared to the tweens these days. I think its dangerous and risky to merge them. I don’t want my young teenage son on SL with strangers, I might as well drop him in the city by himself. I think a family grid might be nice for people using it to connect, when apart, but other than that, I really don’t want it. Kids have enough games and virtual worlds just for them, and I think it should stay that way, Let the grown ups have their own place please!!!!”
Ciaran Laval: “What has Second Life done for you and would you recommend Second Life to friends and colleagues?”
Paisley Beebe: “Second Life has given me an opportunity to work from home, look after my 2 young kids, get back into the work force, and achieve a feeling of personal career and artistic satisfaction. If it were all to end tomorrow I would know that I have done something no-one else has done, and that I helped to encourage many many people to make their talent and potential public from appearing on my show. There are other TV shows in SL for sure and more will come, but Tonight Live was an innovator in many many ways. I find in Australia that SL is not very well known and most people in Australian think I’m completely nuts! (maybe they are right!) so I haven’t really had an opportunity to recommend it as such…but I’m sure that will change. I’ve told a few musicians about it of course and brought some of them in, to play along side of me, but they are generally too overwhelmed by it, and most of the musicians I know are just not interested enough yet to consider it, MySpace is a stretch for many of them. Jazz Artists aren’t on the whole all that tech savy…Later in the year Paisley Beebe is being honored at a RL museum in Melbourne Australia as part of a permanent exhibition on the history of Australian Film and Television. This is a mainstream very well regarded museum so I guess the Aussies are slowly recognizing virtual media…I’ll be mainstream yet!”
Ciaran Laval: “Who would you most like to interview?”
Paisley Beebe: “Oprah 🙂 wouldn’t that be cool to have an Oprah in avatar form on my show??? ….she’s a fascinating person and a role model for sure, even though we are universes apart in so many ridiculous ways… how exciting would that be???!!!!!! I could write a huge list but out of all them in all honesty for Kudos and excitement and fun its got to be her! (I think I can stay safe nerves wise that it will never happen :)”
Ciaran Laval: “Who is your favourite Second Life performer?”
Paisley Beebe: “That’s not fair to ask that, every musician who has been on my show is extraordinary in some way. I am very picky about who I choose to be on the show. And they are all my favorite on the day they perform :)”
Ciaran Laval: “What hopes do you have for the future of Second Life?”
Paisley Beebe: “I hope that it brings our world together more…that sounds very Miss america doesn’t it?, but as an example, I already understand Americans, in particular, much better than I used to, just by working so closely with them as I have over 2 years. I also hope that second life can continue to provide a more level playing field for people, so that we are not prevented from succeeding due to sexism, ageism, youth, racism, religion, disability or any other prejudice that people use to hold talented people back. The power brokers in whatever field you are pursuing can’t stand in the way of a person with smarts, talent and perseverance in this world of SL. If you fail in SL its because you may be too early for the platform, or may have chosen the wrong idea for this platform, but not because of all the usual things in RL that might be holding you back from succeeding.”
To find out more about SLCN, Paisley Beebe or her RL self over at myspace follow the links below:
www.tonightlivewithpaisleybeebe.com
www.perfectworldproductions.com.au
www.slcn.tv/tonight-live-paisley-beebe
www.leoniesmith.com
www.paisleybeebe.com
www.slcn.tv
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