Meet The Lindens with Linden Lab CEO Ebbe Altberg took place this evening and after a delay for technical issues, burst into life with a very enjoyable Q&A session. Jo Yardley and Saffia Widdershins posed the questions, Ebbe Altberg provided the answers, but he brought no super scoops with him and he also admitted that he was not bearing bears either!
A video will appear in a few days time and there were Lindens in the audience transcribing the meeting so if you want the full, 100% real McCoy version you will have to wait for that to appear. However if you want my version, which did not include short hand and was created in the midst of several crashes, read on. I will do my best to make a fair and accurate representation of some of what was said. I hope I haven’t made any blunders as once again, I don’t want to start any blasphemous rumours.
Ebbe admitted that he is proud that the relationship between Linden Lab and residents is much better than it was when he first started working as CEO for Linden Lab. He was talking about communication here and I wholeheartedly agree with him. I complained quite a lot about the Lab’s poor communications in the years before Ebbe became CEO. Ebbe felt that the relationship was a bit tense, I just felt the relationship needed a lot of counselling sessions, but things have undoubtedly improved.
Ebbe is also proud of performance and quality improvements. I do think Rod Humble’s reign also saw performance and quality improvements but Ebbe has certainly been CEO during a period when Second Life has seen some impressive improvements and developments. I’m thinking of things such as the content delivery network here.
Ebbe also talked about how when he arrived the focus on products was a bit scattered, now there is more focus on four core products. The products being Second Life, Blocksworld, Project Sansar and Compliance. I was disappointed that Linden Lab let Versu go and I was happy when they allowed new life to be breathed into it but hearing Ebbe speak like this explains why Linden Lab took those decisions over some of their products.
Now if you’re wondering if Compliance is a top secret virtual world that you’ve never heard of, it isn’t. Compliance is Linden Lab ensuring everything is above board, that they can convince the banks they are working in a responsible manner and that they are working to prevent fraud and identity problems. This explains why Linden Lab have been pushing for people to identify for tax and account purposes and whereas some of the communications regarding that weren’t conveyed as well as they should have been in the early days, it’s clear to see there was a purpose behind the moves Linden Lab made. This also means that when Linden Lab launch Project Sansar, they will be well ahead of a lot of other ventures who want to deal with real money transactions.
Ebbe also touched upon trust, more than once. One area where he talked of trust was with regards to faster cash outs. Linden Lab are looking at ways to make it possible for people to cash out within 24 hours for people who pass a trust threshold.
Another area where trust got mentioned was with regards to Project Sansar. People wondered whether people would need payment info on file to sell in Project Sansar. Ebbe suggested that no final decision had been made but they are looking at a system whereby the more Linden Lab trust you, the more you’ll be able to do in Project Sansar. However in another area of trust Ebbe was brutally honest. Whereas Linden Lab can do a lot to stop content theft, they simply can’t stop it full stop. Ebbe pointed out that DRM on films and video games doesn’t stop content theft and that people always seem to find a way. However don’t take this to mean that Linden Lab won’t take measures to try and stop content theft in Project Sansar, it’s just that the cold harsh issue is that they can’t guarantee they can stop it.
In terms of what annoyed Ebbe about negativity regarding Second Life he made an interesting observation. In our real lives, art and sex are all around us, that sort of content is accepted. However certain forms of art and sexual content within a virtual world are frowned upon. I agree with Ebbe that this double standard really makes no sense.
Ebbe was asked if he had seen much of SL12B and he admitted that he had a brief look around and enjoyed some techno music somewhere …. I am not commenting on his musical tastes! However further afield, Ebbe revealed that in Second Life he generally enjoys travelling and socialising. Ebbe does this mainly as Ebbe Linden and he made an interesting comment, when he travels around there are a hell of a lot of Second Life residents who do not realise he’s the CEO. This is something he seems to like as he feels people talk more honestly to him.
Are there any exciting developments planned for Second Life? Ebbe said that there will be more performance improvements and that there are plans to overhaul Media On A Prim so that it supports modern technologies such as HTML5 and WebGL. This has real potential.
There were questions regarding last names for both Second Life and Project Sansar, the answer, unfortunately, is not likely. However Project Sansar sounds as if it will have one account to rule them all and then you will login with the avatar of your choice. There is likely to be a shared real currency balance for these accounts but they will probably have their own virtual currency balance. I wholeheartedly support this concept as I’ve been calling for this for years!
In terms of Virtual Reality Ebbe is a big believer, but, he also, very sensibly, said that it will take time. This is sensible because, as Ebbe acknowledged, there are a lot of new technologies arriving on the scene, some will make it, some won’t and then there’s the issue for Linden Lab regarding which ones they should support. In terms of technologies that have similar functionality this is not that problematic as there will be generic standards but other pieces of hardware will have very different standards and until things settle down, this could prove to be tricky. I’ve mentioned before how VR will need standards, people won’t want apps that work with one headset brand and another app that only works with another headset brand, long term, that simply isn’t feasible.
Project Sansar will apparently allow all users to have a piece of their own land. How big? Well it’s way too early to say but this seems to be part of the plan to make land in Project Sansar a lot cheaper than land in Second Life. Ebbe stopped short of saying “The Tier Is Too Damn High” with regards to land in Second Life, but he seems to be with us in that regard in spirit!
However if Project Sansar has cheaper land, how will Linden Lab make money on this? Well Ebbe said that operational costs should be lower and that they will be looking for ways to make more income from GDP. Ebbe said that a model of 5% marketplace tax and 0% inworld tax on content is not sustainable if they want to reduce land costs. Ebbe definitely seems to feel that the cost of land in Second Life prevents people from getting as creative as they could if land costs were lower. I have long made this point, so I definitely agree!
Linden Lab are not looking to bleed content creators dry though and whereas land costs will come down, there are also other options. In Project Sansar it will be possible for your land to go to sleep when nobody is on it and then come back online when someone arrives there. However if you want your land always on, that may cost you more. These are just suggestions at this stage but it does exemplify that Linden Lab are looking at lots of different options.
The basic goal with Project Sansar is for property taxes to go down and sales taxes to go up, but a balance needs to be struck and Linden Lab will be looking for other revenue streams too.
However what about Second Life? Well Linden Lab are looking at other types of land packages that may well reduce the cost of land. A word of warning here, Linden Lab have been looking at these options for years, long before Ebbe arrived. As Ebbe noted, there’s a balancing act at play here, will different products mean more people want land, or will they mean people ditch full regions in exchange for the brave new land. I would advise people not to get too excited but it’s encouraging to hear that the Lab are still discussing these issues.
In terms of Linden Lab creating a product to replace SL Go Ebbe was brutally honest. The costs of providing a streaming service are expensive at the moment and whereas as Ebbe feels that long term those costs will come down so that they will be at a level that suits users and the business paying for the service, he doesn’t feel we’re there yet. I loved SL Go, but the cold harsh truth is that were not making a profit. Linden Lab will continue to keep an eye on this because they know there’s demand for a streaming service but for now, it’s not something they will be directly involved with.
Project Sansar will have better streaming and sound capabilities than Second Life. This is because Project Sansar will be in part aimed at virtual reality and immersion can be ruined if someone is behind you in VR but it doesn’t sound like they are. Ventures such as High Fidelity have made similar points, spatial awareness is definitely an important aspect of VR.
Now in terms of hardware for Project Sansar, the goal is to make it so that if you can run Second Life reasonably comfortably, you should not need new hardware. However, there will always be exceptions and some older hardware may not be compatible.
Another issue with Project Sansar comes in terms of it being a 13+ product. This means that they will have to ensure minors can’t access areas and content that is not aimed at them. The advantage Linden Lab have here is that they have experience of Second Life and content. They can take that experience into Project Sansar to create a system that suits pretty much everyone .. I hope!
As for who will be in the early alpha stage of Project Sansar, they are really looking for architects early on because there won’t be anything there. People who create great avatars and clothing content will be in a later batch. This makes sense because early on, the avatars are likely to be basic and simply functional. They will also be looking for people with patience as in Alpha you have to be prepared for the company to rip it up and start again. This is true of any Alpha product by the way.
The issue of Third Party Viewers was raised, or more to the point, why Project Sansar won’t have them. Ebbe said that initially this is simply because Linden Lab feel it’s easier for them to develop Project Sansar without having to engage with an Open Source viewer which takes up resources. These are resources that he feels are better spent on other priorities. However he did say that in three or four years time, this may all change.
Ebbe did talk of making the viewer customisable and allowing add-ons, so there could still be scope for people with the right skills to provide third party improvements to viewers for Project Sansar and the door is certainly not shut on the concept of Third Party Viewers.
Ebbe seemed to enjoy the interview, indeed he said that they should do it again soon, which hopefully will happen. Ebbe is bang on the money about improved relations with Second Life residents, and the way he talked suggested he’s very much in favour of sharing information, even if he didn’t bring any major scoops with him.
I enjoyed the interview, hopefully for those who missed it, you’ll enjoy it too when it’s available.
on the 13+
i hope that Sansar has only 2 LL-enforced categories. G and A. So is quite clear. “G” space has content suitable for all ages 13 and up. “A” space is restricted to all ages 18 and up (bounded by RL law)
then there is a settable space option for “A” users. Each “A” user can set for themselves a “A” space to “X”. Self-blocking, on a space by space basis. Basically neither LL or the space owner, determines what “X” is. We determine it for ourself
+
another thought
am not sure that leaving avatars til later in the design/build process is a good idea
if was me I would start with all the stuff that makes the avatar a exemplary thing, in its own self, and make this. Then build the interactive components between avatars. And then build the world around these
the Improbable guys (which you have mentioned before) made a observation. That the most powerful experiences are those that are watchable and entertaining in themselves, without the watcher having to do anything other than watch. Powerful meaning that which draws people in. Draws peoples attention
TV is a good example of drawing watchers in
the most watched thing in everything human, is ourselves. We watch others and ourselves more than we watch anything else. We are fascinated and drawn to each other, for our own selfs sake. Far more than we are ever drawn to anything else
+
the danger with the approach being taken is that LL will repeat the past
despite best intentions, the SL avatar is quite limited. The experience, the world (what is possible outside of the avatar and its interactions with other avatars) was considered to be more important. Important meaning, when weighing up as a business the finitely limited resource/assets available at any given time
as the SL world rapidly advanced, both by LL and users, the SL avatar did not. It was often found that the avatar was unable to be advanced bc many of the intended/planned avatar advances would now break this advanced world if they were implemented
+
HiFi has taken the same approach as LL. People are invited to join. They go: my HiFi avatar is pretty not ok. Then they stop playing/participating regularly, if at all. The only ones left participating are those who dont particularly care. Which is hardly anybody at all, comparatively
when the world builders of HiFi are asked: When are you going to advance the avatar? they go: soon, one day, hopefully, we have lots of other stuff to do before then. And people go: ok cool. I come back then, one day, hopefully. I have lots of other stuff to do before then also
+
basically make a avatar as complex as is possible and make tools that allow the user to make it as interesting to them as possible. Interesting in and of itself
then determine/make the world to fit this, putting restrictions on the world as necessary. Not the other way round, which is often the case with world builders. World first, avatar/person second
people will watch a avatar (themselves) in even a empty space and be fascinated by it. And are even more fascinated (drawn to) watching it interact with other avatars (other people). Like reality TV, soap operas, theatre, for example. Which get watched far more, by far more people, than say a nature documentary or art exhibit